Reenactor Field Tactics

[barcelonablom]

Topic/Post was split for better focus and clarity of subject


Tactical Considerations for AAR: Well Tim all ready brought up gas and automatic weapons in the other thread and that was my main "other guys" buff. My buffs against us:

1. This one is a trend too. We bog down in the attack. We bog down bad. I think I died many times that weekend and only 3 were from small arms. The rest were grenades. The Germans are friggin' 'nade happy like a twelve year old hopped up on Mountain Dew playing Call of Duty, and their stick grenades have a lot more range then ours... I'm sure some have figured the proper method for distance throwing with those. But us bogging down when we are moving just gets them into the 'nade mood and we eat it from grenades. Honestly we're all to blame. Our SL's need to keep pushing us. But us non-rates should know better anyways. Sieze a little initiative and move. My main thing is suppression... We have lots of MGs and a BAR in inventory. IMHO if any of those is laying fire and you get out to move with it covering you... don't take hits from baddies that you know are "under fire" from the guns. Any sane man would stay where they are because of the sound of hundreds of hornets (bullets) buzzing around them, tearing up their position and dirt around them. Us reenactors have a very abstract concept of being "under fire" from automatic weapons. If you're like me you tear your buttons trying to become as small a target as possible. Frankly I think that adopting that as Standard Operating Procedure will most likely miff a lot of people but its just true and common sense, I don't think many of us (me included) have a clue what its like to have a machinegun pointed at you and firing at even a rapid rate... let alone cyclic.

#2 Stops. This is an annoying one for me, especially in the field: stopping. The leaders need to plan and call a halt. Perfectly fine... the squad remains strung out in column, not even attempting to grab cover or adopt some type of flank overwatch... bad. When we stop on patrols for any reason in a column, we need to try and grab nearby cover (even if it means going prone), chances are it'll pay off big one day, so far we've lucked out, but ask the sister battalion of Hal Moore's 2/7 Cavalry. Their CO halted them at a nearby LZ after the events in "We were Soldiers" and called all their officers to the front of the column, remnants of the NVA hit the column and hit them hard, and tore them to pieces. That part of the story never made the movie, bad to see Mel Gibson make his glorious exit just to watch his sister battalion march off to be decimated at a nearby LZ.

Just we need to keep a "combat mindset". Thats a term that the Marines like to throw around a lot and in a lot of cases they're right. Always check to make sure everyone is around you and alert, or where they're supposed to be. The ASL can't be always checking up on everyone all the time. If we take prisoners, we don't need crowds (pictures are fine) Mike with his Tommy was more than enough to cover 2 unarmed FJs with John searching them. We didn't need 2 carbines, 4 garands, a BAR, a Tommy, and the kitchen sink in the mess. If it were a ruse, we would have been eaten badly.

Security in the field is paramount. With no contact between other units on the Allied side, we really don't know whats around us at all. I'd almost say the Germans were very very very coordinated. Their assaults came on at the same time usually from more then a few directions and their numbers of AFVs and men didn't make things easier. I've resided to calling the 12th SS the "Steamroller Division" because I was run over by them more times then I care to count... It was very flatten- flattering.


All in all praises and grumblings aside, that was by far the funnest d*** event ever. Lets hope for another one next year!

[davep]

I have to agree with Rich, I think that we need our SOP's in the field. When to stop and when to move, and under what "conditions" you should take a hit. We should standardized them and all of us should have them burn into our memory so we act, instead of sitting and thinking.

The battle cry of the red bulls is - attack-attack-attack ...... not attack-sit-wait.

One thing that worked well at Holcomb Valley was Dave Session, put us into the fight after our kill time was over. We as a unit should never be sitting for more than a few minutes, there should always be a segment of our unit on the move. Sometimes we sit like deer in the headlights waiting to move. If we can't move forward then move to a flank. If our unit gets taken out, we regroup wait our 10-15 minutes and push on again, each time gaining more and more ground.

In addition we should establish when we should, and should not be firing our weapons, In this "game" our rifles are really a short distance weapon. In this game it is almost don't fire until you see the white's of their eyes.

finally, this may seem strange, but we should stay the hell away from "our armor", armor is just a magnet for enemy troops. We did much better when we were on our own, off the roads, walking through cover.

[mayo]

One of the problems is that we did not have enough men to do it right. As the tactical leader, I was pressed into service in joining the attack immediately because I saw Germans flanking us. I had no one to send to block their flanking movement. I was then killed because I could not stop their flanking movement alone. The SL should not immediately be pressed into service as a riflemen or he will be too busy to make decisions on adjusting the unit to the enemy response. Also, when going to ground under fire, locate enemy, then make your response. We cannot just lay there and shoot back. We have to press them or fall back. When we are outnumbered like that, if we stand and fight, we die. More people need to get grenades. We need to use them as soon as the enemy closes ground with us. When attacking down hill, lead the attack with grenades when close enough.

When on the move, when we stop, we need to spread out and keep our distances. When we accept the surrender of a prisoner or a group of prisoners, we should have one or two covering men, and one guy searching them. Do not bring the prisoner behind our lines until they are properly searched.

[2ndarmoredpal]

Mayo, we definitely were short on people last weekend. In fact, we did pretty well on Sunday when we were amassed on the top of a hill with good visibility and sweeping open fields. Your side held off repeated attacks, as we could see. We didn't see much action on our hill but we did some mopping up on straggler Germans who were attempting to flank or got too close to the top of the hill.

Our numbers definitely hurt. And I'm sure that distracted you from leading and deploying your troops in the field where you saw gaps. As much Dave Sessions gets flak from other members, one thing he did great at the Big Bear battle in Sept was that he did not engage infantry and watched the battle unfold and actually moved and shifted troops to better cover open holes in the defense. Granted, he did this by yelling out how many people were going to what position to reinforce how many guys, but he did get the job done.

Our SL (Roger) does a great job of deploying us and adjusting us in the field. But often we're out numbered and he's thrown in to the fight and often our guys stray off looking for targets and don't pay attention to what the squad as a whole is doing. It's a total lack of training on our part. I'd like to see us do better, but I also know that some folks are just not hard core about it. I'm very well aware that our unit has more members that fall in to that category than others. I can't knock them on it as people get different satisfactions out of reenacting... and I embrace that. But, I think there is a way to corrall errant troops and to keep them somewhat in-line. I've found that that falls on the ASLs, Corporals and such to keep an eye on their guys and make sure everyone knows who they're assigned to. If the ASLs are well trained, they can catch soldiers not taking cover, not moving up, or... in the case of reenacting, perhaps not taking their hits when they should.

One thing that I've found to be a problem is what to do after taking your hit. In the past, as squads received casualties and the survivors either moved on or fell back, the "dead" would get left behind and forced to both catch up with the main force and yet stay far away enough to not interfere with the ongoing battle nor be in a position to revive too close or behind enemy lines. A great majority of us are not in the best physical shape and running around all over the field takes a lot of steam out of them. One of the things that helped us was using the jeeps as a reference and revive point. We don't have heavy weapons on our jeeps, so we parked them further back and then walked in on foot in to position. As we died (which happened a lot this weekend), we'd fall back to the jeeps. If our line moved up, those dead members could bring up the jeeps as they revived. Nobody got too tired and we were able to fight hard all day. I know not every unit has vehicles, but they can do the same by setting up rally points behind the lines to fall back to once you're dead. Having a designated rally point keeps the dead together and thus they can revive as a small squad instead of individuals trickling in one by one. One of the key to German effectiveness in the field is their full force attacks. Their dead don't trail to far behind and return to combat as a whole unit as opposed to individuals. Their rank and file is strictly enforced.

[2ndarmoredpal]

Sorry, I feel like I'm spamming your forums as I'm not part of the 34th. But, I'm at a job where I can sit on my laptop all day with not much to do and you guys have some great topics that I'd like to have the Allies work as a cohesively as the Germans do, despite the differences in Divisions and Regiments. I believe that we can all be on the same page, improving our reenacting better, yet still be distinct units in the field and doing our own thing

[kanowarrior]

Aug 28, 2010 19:26:51 GMT -5 2ndarmoredpal said:

Sorry, I feel like I'm spamming your forums as I'm not part of the 34th.

Hey, don't worry about it. We enjoy having you post here as much as anyone.

[mayo]

Everyone is allowed to post here as long as they are polite. We have no problem what so ever with you, or your posts irregardless of what unit you belong to. You are welcome

[davep]

Yep, Anthony we enjoy topics such as these with any reenactors out there. It's how we get better. As Mayo says as long as they stay polite. It's important to express ideas and viewpoints. What doesn't work in a "forum setting" is when a person(s) trys to convince everyone their viewpoint is correct, and when failing trys and trys more convincing. At that point it is better to discuss it offline, through the use of PM's(Personal Messages). Also what does work is when people try to get cute and take a subject like this and "ball bust".

As far as the allies having a "command unit" that would works, if there was a command unit in the CHG. Having one unit control another in my opinion doesn't work in reenacting. What I've noticed, where and when it does work, is when the "commander" doesn't play, but rather watches and directs. He doesn't use or fire a weapon unless under extreme conditions. He is watching the battle from a safe vantage point.


Anthony, you also bring up a good point as to squads staying together, so much so that when most of the squad is knock out, it is better for those remaining alive to "roll" and the entire squad to remove itself from the battle retreat, regroup, re-play. We should already have our retreat position, "If we are knock out here, we will regroup over there", or "We have 10 guys once we are down to 4, we all move back", regardless of whether you're are dead or alive.

[mayo]

"What I've noticed, where and when it does work, is when the "commander" doesn't play, but rather watches and directs. He doesn't use or fire a weapon unless under extreme conditions. He is watching the battle from a safe vantage point."

This was one of my earlier points Dave. We also should have enough reserve forces to cover a flanking movement by the enemy. That is ok to do with the squad leader in confined areas, but in open terrain like we were in, one guy just cannot stop a flanking movement by 4 Germans unless he has an Automatic weapon and good cover. I try to hang back and direct traffic, but when I see things that I cannot communicate to the rest of you due to distance and a high level of fire being exchanged, I have to react to the situation. I should have tossed grenades, but I couldn't get to them fast enough before I got overrun on the left flank. 8)

[davep]

I hear you Mike, and not all situations are the same, we almost have to treat "reenacting" like a football game and go over the "game films" and critique what worked and what didn't. We need to develop a play book and strategy that all the players know what we are doing and what to do when you get knocked out.

For example under ideal conditions are squad will operate like this _______________________

Under less than ideal conditions, when we encounter a larger force, or are unable to flank we will _________________

[2ndarmoredpal]

Thanks guys.

Well, I know for one Dave Sessions would love to be General, Field Marshall, and Major all rolled in to one! I think he likes being a leader and doesn't necessarily need to be a part of the action. It's admirable of him, I think, because he does take a step back and sees the need for an over-seeing entity keeping the troops in control and coordinated.

I think we're more than a stone's throw away from setting up a good HQ unit that can oversee all Allied actions in the field... an Army Corps or even and Army Group unit. I would love to see a unit like that form up, complete with signal equipment and runners and such. It would be awesome to see a fully dedicated HQ unit that can dedicate the time, money, and research on doing something like that! We had one set up one time for an Anzio scenario at Roberts somewhere around 2005 or 2006 and I thought it was great!

That's another thing we don't do: fallback/retreat/attack in reverse. It seems like we fight until we are completely destroyed and thus have to not only wait for kill times for the last person killed, but then allow the Germans unopposed access to the ground behind us where they can advance and thus force us to fall back even further just to revive. Dave, I like that idea of determining a maximum amount of losses before the survivors fall back to safer territory. Just the fact that there are live Allied soldiers out there somewhere will prevent the Germans steamrolling through our lines.

[kanowarrior]

Weren't you at the last PTO battle? The Japanese did just that, a retreating defense. We knew we couldn't hold the line and didn't have the numbers to attack so we did what we could, a delayed retreat costing the Marines as many casualties as we could with ambushes and booby traps. In the end they did exactly what we expected, roll into our camp so we had it set up as a massive ambush and cut them down in there.

It's all in the tactics. It's not always about attacking.