German SS in Parade causes issues

[davep]

Reenactors in Germany, Parade in SS uniforms sparks outrage. The issue is why reenactors have to do "SS" units when the regular Wehrmacht would be more acceptable; specially in Germany.

www.thelocal.de/society/20090619-20067.html

[taishocat]

Yea, and I thought MacArthur laws during the occupation in Japan was bad....

I think its just the media, some people who's religions have been persecuted by the Nazis and they're still bitter over it (I'm talking about present people, not holocaust survivors) and others from sheer ignorance giving Germans the permanent "guilt" card, even in this century 60 years later where they had no involvement in the Third Reich.....And sometimes, they feel that the Germans in this generation are not even allowed to express pride of being "German", especially in sports events such as the Olympics or the previous FIFA (you remember soccer??) because they think the Germans are gonna yell out "Sieg Heil" or "Heil Hitler" because when people think of Germany, its always about nazism and the holocaust, not anything positive of the current Germany. I think its just the idea in our education of America, the victors, think that our enemies' soldiers were all "bad" people and they deserved to get killed, especially when there's no mention in our educational system that the soldiers in the axis side were mostly fighting because of a draft or fighting to protect the homeland from invaders, not for the dictatorship or ruler of the nation (Just like the allies???).

Sorry about my rant, I just came back from school pissed off...

[barcelonablom]

I think we can all agree that despite what the claims are this is most certainly a self-guilt trip unlike no other.

Yes bad things happened, but that doesn't mean everyone was party let alone privy to it. I'm reading a biography of Rommel and I'm on a section where the author takes a chapter to explain the post WWI German military climate. Von Seeckt revolutionized the army of the Weimar Republic (called the Reichwehr) and managed to modernize them when according to the treaty of Versailles it was illegal. He instilled a very professional and patriotic sense in the German military of the 20s and sadly after multiple failed putschs and coups he realized that even though the military was party to some of these, they could not be involved in politics. His policy was that they turn a blind eye to politics and that soldiers should not even vote for Parliament. They should just stay loyal to each other and the ideals of the Reichwehr. Well obviously this backfired when Hitler gained Chancellorship in 1933. I may bring more up on this later as its interested me heavily and some of the things Von Seeckt implemented were amazing (he ignored Hitler at first as another rabblemaker and then came to like him, he went away to Nationalist China to advise troops there and when he returned he spent his last year alive realizing that Hitler was bad news for Germany).

Germany has no medal for valorous acts. After WW2 the Iron Cross was taken away as an award. Veterans were still allowed to wear it (a modified version that replaced the swastika with an oakleaf cluster) however. The only medals they have are "atta boys" and long service awards. There has been a push over the last few years to reinstate the Iron Cross. But too many state that it brings back "bad memories" of not only Hitler in the 30s-40s but also the Imperialistic Germany of the 1900s-1910s. Now thats taking the guilt a bit too far to even say that the realm of the Kaiser was anything like the Third Reich. I hope they do. German people have always stuck to one thing they've always known, since they were tribes, as seperate kingdomgs/duchys and later as a unified German people: their traditions.

The Wehrmacht uniforms are fine but I'm amazed, because laws in Germany say even possession is punishable by jailing... I see 3 Wehrmacht Uniforms (Two back ground and the foreground far right) and for sure the foreground guy on the far left is wearing a Waffen SS uniform, the gent in the middle appears to be wearing a standard Wehrmacht Panzer uniform, the fact its black and the collar tabs are death's heads often has it confused for an SS uniform. The Waffen SS panzer would have a sleeve eagle rather than a breast eagle and the left side would be his SS rank insignia. The SS uniform wearing guy could have been much smarter and the Panzer guy should have realized that most mistake Panzertruppen for SS because of the black wrap. That is a Heer Wrap. This is an SS wrap.

I think its time for Germany to move on... Japan has done so and admitted their wrongs and moved on, only small groups of closet wackos exist as deniers. But I see the issue, there is no large, European and America spanning Neo-Tojo movement in existence but Neo-Nazis are not afraid to let themselves be heard, no matter how ignorant.

[davep]

I think it will take another 10 to 20 years as those from WW2 past on. In some respects they blame the Hitler for putting the country into war and back into poverty after the war. Some never recovering their prior existence. They need a scapecoat. Once they die and are no more the scapecoat will be less needed.

[SSgt. Burgess]

What a weird issue. It's close to denial in a sense, however, we live in the U.S. and we are used to our fun freedom of speech, where as in Germany apparently that basic law has been touched up (of course I know they are a totally different type of government but lets put that aside). In the U.S. we have plenty of anti-Semite groups, whack job commie groups, Nazi groups and everything in between, the difference is that none of them took power and tried to conquer the world (yet). So I imagine it is a bit difficult to shed those horrible memories, especially if your father or grandfather was one of the people pushing Hitler's agenda with a rifle on the battlefield. Not to say they were all Nazi's, not in the least, the number of real Nazi's is staggering, but not even close to half of the German soldiers at the time were real Nazi's, this is blatently apparent. The issue I think is that even though you weren't a real Nazi you were in fact advancing Hitler's personal plot against humanity, now I understand the issue of "I was just doing my duty as a soldier", no doubt and I can respect that, any other self dignifying human being would defend their own country to the death and they should do so proudly. What irks the German people is the disgusting view the World took after the war, and especially after the Nuremberg trials when we found out about a lot of the more horrible stuff the Nazi's were doing. I can remember in middle school, talking about heritage and lineage, I am about 50% German and 50% Greek, now that really isn't a big deal, but I was ridiculed and called a Nazi just for having German in me (sounds ridiculous, but it's true), and this was just in sixth grade. I can't imagine what some German people may have gone through in those years following the war, do you think any of them traveled to Poland on holiday? Or how about Belorussia? Or any of the countries the Nazi's had a stranglehold on, I'm guessing not too many made any sort of travel arrangements. Isn't the swastika banned in Germany anyways? On the base level they are already breaking the laws correct? Then they sport the fanatic SS uniform on the streets of Germany, wow, I can imagine these are intelligent folks right? What is the issue with just wearing a Wehrmacht uniform like Dave was saying, you can even cover the swastikas or even have something else in place that from 50feet can't be discerned anyways, I feel like this was probably some bull shock value crap and these kids probably just wanted to make headlines. If you are trying to prove something historical I don't think you have to be the SS, the Germans of all people know really well who and what the SS were, HELL some of there grandparents may have been in the SS! The German people are still trying to shed this guilt, and these idiots are making that harder to do, I believe. Poor choices will lead to poor consequences, hope these idiots get what is coming to them.

[mexbob]

I agree with Sgt. Burgess. However, remember that Germans are subjects ( and only 20% of their country's population ) while we are citizens of the U.S.A., with dwindling, fleeting, personal rights, true, and yet...they are still here...for now.

[Donnie]

great dialogue.

I think it's going to be 20 years before the guilt is shed and Germany can take pride again in being German. taishocat I have to agree with you on a number of points-- So true when Germany was in the world cup this year and the store keeper wanted to hang a large flag from his store and it was torn down because it reminded people of the National Socialism of having large flags draping bulidings
www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,703533,00.html
www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128267395